Reproductive Ethics

[fractalfeline]

So I thought I'd try my hand at making another juicy thread that gets people all riled up.

It would seem that a lot of thought and debate is put into reproductive ethics. Everything from abortion, to contraception, to masturbation, to gay rights, to eugenics... Anyone have any idea why this is?

What are "responsible" sexual habits? What are "irresponsible" sexual habits? Moral/immoral? At the core, what principles guide YOUR particular set of reproductive ethics?

Pro-choice or pro-life? Pro contraception or anti-contraception? What defines the boundaries of a sexual relationship between two entities? Gender? Age? Species? (meant to be tongue-in-cheek there but you'd be surprised how many people can justify a bestial relationship online :hahano

With the advent of modern genetics, cloning, and the like, what are your thoughts about gene therapy? Is it ok for a clinic to select certain embryos? What happens to the "defective" embryos? What about sperm banks? Is it ok for a woman to go to a sperm bank and "select" a sperm? What defines one gene as "superior" and another gene as "defective"?

This is halfway meant to be a survey and half discussion, but feel free to take it in any direction, by all means

[phazzedout]

"The condom is the glass slipper of our generation. You slip it on, you dance the night away with a stranger, and then you throw it away - the condom, that is, not the stranger." Marla (Fight Club 1999)

You are with a stranger be a good person and wear a helmet before preparing for battle. It does not work 100 percent of the time but better than going to the field of battle without any head gear. It's raining bullets out there!

I am a huge supporter on contraceptives, I recall of a friend who was ignorant about contraceptives. He thought that they did not work and everyone ends up pregnant. When I told him that I have been having sexual relations with my girlfriend for two years with little or no usage of a helmet he didn't understand.

I see it unethical to not teach sexual education, and I mean real sex ed. When I see some states funding only Abstinence I yell out to my television, "Weren't these (sic)ing (sic)ots young once, these teens are like dogs, and will jump on the chance for sexual relief." With that being said, if a teen believes that a girl can not get pregnant if you lay your seed on her while she is on the cowgirl position because of gravity, what do you think will happen.

I am pro-life to an extent. I think social economic class should be looked at. If someone can support a child and has no excuse then I believe it to be unethical. When someone does not have any money to raise a child, or knowingly has a spouse who might molest the child, this might be a good time to abort.

Rape victims have every right to abort, the laws of the land should not extend to this person.

Of course the laws say that everyone is entitled to their privacy, but then this really boils down to the mainstream religion of Christianity stating that it is murder.

There is no point to cloning, really. I support the research, for I am also interested too, but it seems that once the DNA is done, the clone (whether old or young) will die as well.

Genetic manipulation will be good to an extent. One thing we need to do though is really do some 20-50 years of research before we truly start releasing this. We can probably figure out why. One argument against it though is that in the wrong hands this could be used for bad. (e.g. if Hitler had this power, every born German would be genetically mutated to have blond hair and blue eyes.)

[kefka_asylum]

my helmet is made of +10 adamantium
it is a gnarly great helm with abrasive spikes


didnt anyone forget the psychological factors of the reproductive conscious?

humans have choice
and they have instinct
they are both intelligent
and driven by lust

what we can think of as death is only a beginning of other life forms
sacrificing your last energy for a billion new stars


it is natural to want to procreate
and it is human to avoid consequences and responsiblity

[phazzedout]

@kefka_asylum Lol it is natural to want to procreate or at least feel good! But most humans would rather not have a kid during their teen years. I can agree to that so why not let the girls go on birth control. Some states simply do not allow this and have to call their parents for this. Sometimes I don't get this world.

[xav0989]

The problem is that legally, you are not allowed to procreate, or have sex, under the age of 16 (or 14, depending on where you leave). Laws would be a bit stupid if they allowed teens younger than that to get the pill or any other contraceptive. Also, the pill pretty much messes up your hormonal system, so you need to know what you are doing. But I do agree that the fact that they call the parents is pretty weird. I personally don't necessarily want my parents to know what I am doing at parties.

[phazzedout]

The problem is that legally, you are not allowed to procreate, or have sex, under the age of 16 (or 14, depending on where you leave). Laws would be a bit stupid if they allowed teens younger than that to get the pill or any other contraceptive. Also, the pill pretty much messes up your hormonal system, so you need to know what you are doing. But I do agree that the fact that they call the parents is pretty weird. I personally don't necessarily want my parents to know what I am doing at parties.

Well you have to consider that even if it is illegal, you can not ignore that they will still have sex. Also it may be illegal but it is not enforced. So now imagine if people at the age of 17 can not get birth control, ta-da you have a whole bunch of unwanted babies. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be born in a world with no one to love me. The pill is not that bad, I would suggest using the NuvaRing or Mirena though. They work fine and don't do much damage to you (if your immune system is strong). I am not saying that I am willing to risk my girlfriend's health just to not get her pregnant. I honestly would love a male birth control. I have heard of a shot that is showing promise. I wouldn't mind that.

[fractalfeline]

<devilsadvocate>
Why on earth would people want to outlaw contraceptives for young teens? Do they believe that disallowing access to birth control will keep young teens from having sex?

Case in point: what's wrong with young teens having sex? Why would a parent want their legislature to pass laws limiting the amount of sex a young teen can have? Why would a parent think that limiting birth control for teens under 14-16 would be effective in reducing the amount of sex the teen can have?
</devilsadvocate>
Just to get the juices flowing.

[tcmstr134]

Before I begin, one must know that I am 16. I live through today's society in a big city, right in the heart of it. My school is composed of mainly minorities, and most students are coming from the "bad" neighborhoods in the city. If you wanna talk about peer pressure to do illegal activities,these are the front lines. Sure, In school we may be safe, but you wouldn't believe the stuff I've seen freshmen do just a block away.


Let me share a quick story with you all.

I have a friend. Lets call her Jane. Jane and her boyfriend (we'll call him Jake), have been going out for almost 2 calendar years. They're both 17. Anyways, they spend time at each other's houses all the time, and their parents are okay with that, and know about it. From what I've gathered heres what happened:
They were horny. They had no condom, and she can't get the pill (I won't even get into that argument, I'll get to that later). They decided that they were going to have sex anyways. They had the same old thought of "If shes on top, gravity will pull the sperm down, and she wont be pregnant." So, Murphy's law happened. She got pregnant. The day she found out, she went to a clinic to try and get an abortion. But Illinois' new law just came into effect, and is now requiring parental notification. She doesn't want to tell her mother (her father is out of the picture) as she is scared of what her mother may do. Shes currently unsure of what to do, and he's left her for another girl.

Stepping back from the story:
1 - The lack of knowledge about the subject is astonishing. Yes, they may be 17 years old, but the school teaches abstinence. They wont even mention the word sex, unless its in a context of "Don't do it". Why aren't our schools teaching REAL sex ed, not this fake abstinence stuff? For crying out loud, we had THREE freshman mothers my freshman year. We have a class size of 150. Thats ONE THIRD of our class, including males.
2 - The fact that she, taking full responsibility tried to get an abortion, and couldn't get one without parental consent is troubling to me. She has taken full responsibility, and can't decide her own future? Shes a YEAR (technically 7 months, but whatever) from being able to make that decision anyways. Why can't our government see the problem?

Anyways, if this made no sense, I'm sorry, its almost 1am and im supposed to be writing an essay. I'll elaborate more later today..

[phazzedout]

@tcmstr I agree with your perfectly, some people will walk around saying, why allow letting them have condoms and other things at their disposal, they shouldn't be doing it anyways.

That wouldn't make sense in anyone's head. Such as some of the stores here in our city, have new rules that people under 18 can not buy condoms. I mean.... Really?! So I gathered some people from my college and just spent a whole day in front of stores passing out condoms.

Every time we have friend we ask them, do you have condoms. If they say no and have been sexually active we usually slap them around, then we give them 100 condoms.

Really most of these people's argument does not even make sense. It is like saying, The guy that ran the kid over should not be blamed for anything since the kid shouldn't of been on the street anyway.

[fractalfeline]

@tcmstr I agree with your perfectly, some people will walk around saying, why allow letting them have condoms and other things at their disposal, they shouldn't be doing it anyways.

That wouldn't make sense in anyone's head. Such as some of the stores here in our city, have new rules that people under 18 can not buy condoms. I mean.... Really?! So I gathered some people from my college and just spent a whole day in front of stores passing out condoms.

Every time we have friend we ask them, do you have condoms. If they say no and have been sexually active we usually slap them around, then we give them 100 condoms.

Really most of these people's argument does not even make sense. It is like saying, The guy that ran the kid over should not be blamed for anything since the kid shouldn't of been on the street anyway.

I agree with you and tcmstr. Teens, as soon as they hit puberty, have the equipment and drive to have sex. They are, technically, biologically, adults. You don't see biologists classifying animals on the basis of whether the pride of lions allows the "cub" to start participating in adult activities; they are classified by whether they are able to reproduce. Pretty easy in the biological world, but here in the human world, you aren't adult until you're what, 18? Kinda arbitrary, considering most teens are fully done with puberty by time they're 16, and have fully grown brains by time they are 12.

"Mommy, why shouldn't I have sex?"
-- "Because."
"Because why?"
-- "Because I said so!"

You can get away with a conversation in that format when the kid is 6, but it doesn't quite work with a 15 year old.

Essentially, most teens are fully capable of making their own decisions about whether they want to have sex or not, and many times, the decision comes down to how strong their drive is at the time. Surely, if they knew what their options were, and what the consequences were, they could be capable of making a rational decision, yes?

So back to the question: Why do the laws, lawmakers, parents, and the like, continue to teach abstinence only, and disallow birth control and other reproductive rights to teens? Is there another factor here we aren't accounting for?